The Watch / discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page The Watch.

Justice in Euper and Keeptowne

Tatsushu 1220976541|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

"Justice that must be employed when members of the noble or aristocratic classes are involved, and generally involve the courts (either Low or High) and a good bit of formal social rigmarole. Only Captains of Noble Station can mete out High Justice when dealing with nobles of lesser station, but must otherwise refer such crimes to the Seneshal or High Court for dispensation.
Crimes committed by commoners that are extreme and egregious are also referred to the High Court."

It seems to me that any soldier or warden *when carrying out his duty* essentially outrank nobility; they are acting with limited powers granted by the Duke or by the Duke's representative (in the case of Euper, the Duke has granted law-keeping authority to the city, and through its charter it has designated the Wardens as the official instrument of that authority). This is why a Warden may arrest a nobleman accused of murder.

Also, do we want the Watch to have the ability to hold impromptu courts and mete out justice immediately? While I could see them throwing someone in the gaol for basic and blatant violations of city ordinances, as well as defending someone, how far do their powers extend? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the intent.

For non-petty theft (i.e. more than just pick-pocketing, or 'small' sums of monetary value), for assault, and frankly for most things where there is both a plaintiff and defendant I would think these things would go before a magistrate. Civil issues as well (suits, breach of contract, land disputes, etc.). Magistrates would only have limited power over nobility, unless granted authority by the County Courts.

Perhaps I'm somewhat confused on what the 'High Court' is and what it is for. In my mind the 'High Court' would be the County Courts, where trained judges preside over serious cases of murder, rape, arson, etc. County court judges, though not noble, would have jurisdiction over the nobility because they are, in effect, exercising the power of the Duke in discharging their duties and are his representatives.

The Duke's Court (where Matthias, Lynn, and others have been tried) would be for either crimes committed within the Keep, or crimes that the Duke felt were important enough they could not be resolved in a lower court, including (potentially) appeals. In Keeptowne, I imagine the Seneschal or a representative would be responsible for adjudicating petty offenses that do not rise to the level of a criminal act.

Does this make sense, and does it fly in the face of anything currently canonized out there?

Re: Justice in Euper and Keeptowne

Ryx 1221224538|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

A Warden (Member of the Watch) may indeed arrest a Noble or Aristocrat charged with any crimes, but cannot mete out justice against them unless that Warden has a higher rank among the Nobility (Captains and higher are always Noble born, and most Lieutenants are also of the Aristocracy or Low Nobility, and can mete out minor justice where feasable without referring to a higher court).

For those whose social status is beyond the jurisdiction of the Wardens the crimes must be taken to a higher court, one suitable in dealing with those of higher social rank. This rankles the commoners to no end, of course, who believe that everyone must face the same punitive measures for their crimes as even the lowest social ranks, but in the heirarchal structure of MK societies such measures are not 'truthfully' feasable - a noble serving jail time for a petty crime cannot oversee their station and lands.
If the crime is henious enough, or a pattern of lesser crimes sets up a precedent of behavioral disposission, then those ranks can be stripped away but that takes a writ from the highest court in the land (Duke Thomas or his direct appointees). Woe unto the noble to whom this happens… for the commoners are quick to take advantage of a noble reduced to their social status.