Curse / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page Curse.

Hybrids?

MatthiasRat 28 Nov 2014 03:13

I do not think that differently cursed Animrophs should have any chance of giving birth to a hybrid. They are either human, or one or the other of the parents. I do not think we should be making mixes. I see no justification for it.

Dominus tecum

Re: Hybrids?

Ryx 28 Nov 2014 04:01

As with many things Metamor - justification is a thin veil.
Not to say that it's a normal expectation, to be very sure, and highly unlikely all the same. But as with the Duchess Alberta, such convoluted paths have been charted through the turbulent waters of Metamor history.

And, by Hybrids I'm thinking of more along the lines of simlar species - dog/wolf, differing felines, Asses, and such common hybrids. Hybrids of less comparable species (such as, say, a Deer and a Horse) would be - as expected - so rare as to be something of note. Such things are what stories are made of, after all!

Re: Hybrids?

MatthiasRat 29 Nov 2014 11:41

I figured that Assingh are even closer to horses than Donkeys are, hence why the only difference for Bryn is that he has longer ears than a horse normally would, but otherwise appears a fine stallion. Close matches are fine a they can happen in our world. (So yes, you could have a liger). But even foxes and wolves would not create a folf as foxes are far more distant in the species tree.

I do not think a deer and a horse would create any hybrid, the children are either human, or born as deer or horse.

I do not think ANYTHING should be possible; restrictions actually spur creativity.

Dominus tecum

Re: Hybrids?

MishaFox 30 Nov 2014 04:15

Not to beat a dead horse but wasn't this decided a long time ago? If animal species could breed in the real life wild then the Keepers version can too. Horse/Zebra/Mule.

But Wolf and leopard morphs would have 3 kinds of kids - human. wolf, leopard. NO hybrid.

Re: Hybrids?

Ryx 30 Nov 2014 05:01

Given, yes, I would agree. Physical hybridization of dissimilar species would be all-but-impossible, and at this point not accepted.
Now, if a writer has some very, very good ideas about it… They would still have a lot of convincing to do.

Perhaps, in the above mentioned case of a leopard and wolf family, I would imagine a leopard-patterned wolf (unfortunate fellow, to be sure!), but no *physical* mixture. He'd either be all wolf with odd markings, or all leopard with an unfortunate grayness of fur.

Even mythological creatures (dragons, unicorns, et al) would not produce hybrids. But how would we manage chimeras, since they are not a codified single species to begin with? Would a chimeric animorph even be possible via the curse?

Note: This speaks solely of reproduction of animorphs affected by Metamor's Curse.
Those who are affected by other magics independent of Metamor are not bound by this stipulation. There have been were-birds caught by the curse, if I recall, who were affected by other magic prior to Metamor's. Chimeras and hybrids could be possible independent of the Curse, but if their base nature was human they are not immune to the curse because of some other magic upon them. If they were stricken with the animorph aspect of the curse whatever subsequent magic they were affected by might be stripped away and replaced with a new form, or if AR/TG not changed at all save their age/gender. Genetic predispositions such as the above mentioned were-birds is a completely individual inheritance and would be unaffected by the curse. I believe someone wrote of a Kitsune who went through this (I would expect Kitsune or similar creatures, being genetically animal and not human, would be immune but… eh, someone else's creative license?)

Re: Hybrids?

Kanmuri 30 Nov 2014 07:52

I believe the Kitsune you speak of was Tatsushu's character Ryuo. This is major spoilers for his origin story, of course, but he was an Inari Kitsune that was under a curse that was turning him Human. When he came to Metamor, the Keep's curse effectively cancelled out the one that was turning him human.

Re: Hybrids?

AlexSurikat 02 Dec 2014 00:43

I would have to agree with MathiasRat on hybrids. I don't think they should exist with the exception of those that can actually occur in nature.

But Ryx brings up an interesting point with Chimeras. I assume he means the mythological kind, but genetic chimeras actually exist. Tetragametic chimerism happens when two separate ova and sperm form two separate zygotes that fuse together to form a single organism. It's basically when two fraternal twins merge at an extremely early stage of development (the exact opposite of the formation of identical twins where one zygote splits to form two organisms). This leads to a single individual with two different sets of DNA. They don't even have to be the same sex. There is a particularly famous example where a female sprinter was kicked off the Dutch national team under suspicion of actually being male. It was later discovered that she was half female and half male. Literally 50% of her cells were genetically female (XX chromosomes), and the other 50% were genetically male (XY chromosomes).

This leads to an interesting question when it comes to the curse. How important is genetics when determining the resulting curse? Having the curse pass down to offspring suggests that genetics holds at least some relevance. It would therefore be possible that parents of differing animorph curses could give birth to a Chimera. The child would not be a hybrid; the parts of the body that are one species would be exclusively that species. The child could breed, but the result would depend on whichever cell line gave rise to the sex organs, so a Chimera could only ever have offspring of one of it's constituent species.

This could also be an explanation for Keepers who got two curses without any additional interfering magic. Without having to fight a curse of the same type, the magic of both curses could spread throughout the entire body. It would also mean that occasionally someone could be cursed with two separate animal curses and become a (non-magical) Chimera. It would have a very low probability; basically the probability of being a genetic chimera (unknown but likely rare) times the probability of getting two animorph curses (11%).

This Chimera offspring thing would be rare, and I would suspect that most often, a child would take the species of one parent or the other or simply remain human, but I think it's an interesting possibility to take into consideration.

Re: Hybrids?

Ryx 11 Dec 2014 14:24

Under its current limitations the curses are mutually exclusive - whichever aspect fastens to a subject first becomes the dominant curse. No subsequent curse can affect the subject unless the original curse is ripped away. That has happened a sum total of - I believe - ONCE, and it took half a million words to play out.
Early in the establishment of the curses a few were subjected to multiple affects at once, but they are 'pure' aspects; A TG might become an Animorph, but each touch of the curse plays out in its entirety. The only exception to that was Bishop Vinsah, who was partially affected by the AR curse returning him to the equivalent age of lower 20s where he had originally been in his 60s or 80s. It may be postulated that a third party tinkered a bit, but this is an extreme and rare (unique) event.

Thusly, the Curse will not create Chimerae of any sort. Thus, whatever species an animorph becomes, there can be no amalgamation of other species without a lot of rationalization beyond the bounds of the curse. Ergo, Chimeric/Hybrid* offspring would also require a very heavy degree of rationalization vetted through the World Moderators. (* Hybrids as defined in my previous post).

Physically someone with the animorph curse can have aspects of other species - Murikeer, as an example, has 'doglike' digitigrade legs despite the fact that skunks are plantigrade, but in all other ways he is a skunk animorph. This is a minor alteration to the curse, but he could not have gotten wings, and will never be able to without subjecting himself to other transformational magic (which does not work reliably, and certainly not permanently, on Keepers because of the Curse). Thus, he could not be classified as a chimera nor hybrid.

Re: Hybrids?

AmigaDragon 14 Dec 2014 06:48

I think the "were-bird" referenced above was a weremouse with his human aspect turned bird by the animorph curse.

Major rewrite

Rimme 19 Mar 2018 06:02

Hey everyone! I thought that the Curse page needed a major rewrite, considering that information was spread across both this page and Writer's Guidelines. So I've recompiled everything onto one page and divided them into sections to address every single aspect of the Curse.

Because I'm afraid of coming off as presumptuous, I've kept every word of both articles, and added missing bits of info that I've gathered from various discussions and stories I've seen. However, I have no real idea of how accepted these ideas are, so I've put all my additions in underline. If nobody has any objections, I'll remove them in a week. Eventually, I'd like to clean up some of the old text as well and polish the whole article. But I'd like to hear if anyone has any comments or critiques.