Marigund may be a city, but it is a city of thousands, not millions. It's rather ridiculous to suggest that there are a few hundred people of noble birth and born in Marigund who are willing to join such an organization. It suggests that there are thousands in Marigund who are of noble birth, which suggests that Marigund is a city of millions.

If Marigund were that large, it would be BY FAR the largest city in the world. This is really not remotely realistic.

Dominus tecum

The word 'Centaur' as used typically (or singularly) refers only to the classic equine version that certain cultures have created (or encountered). The overall term is also used loosely to define all human-animal quadrupedal admixtures such as what might be seen when certain Keepers assume hybrid forms.
These hybrid non-equine forms may also be referred to by their Seulish Taxonomic terms: Vulpitaur, Equitaur, Felitaur and the like, but only in those regions where more than one specific species form might be encountered (specifically Metamor in this instance) on a somewhat regular basis.

Concerning the classic Centaur, there are considerable variants that may be referred to by respectful or derrogetory terms as defined by the culture using them.
Equitaur - Same as the standard Centaur but having a horse's head as opposed to human. Generally not found to have human-level intelligence but are sentient beyond the average horse.
Man-Sired - A more perjorative terminology referring to centaurs considerably smaller than average (standing approx 5-6 feet at their head), lacking the equine ears, with predominantly human facial/torso features and considerably less body hair on their upper body. Certain cultures also refer to them as 'Hinds' due to their smaller lower bodies resembling a deer-like physiology. Among centaur cultures these smaller, more human appearing centaurs are thought to be the results between men and centaur mares. They are often outcasts regardless.
Beast-Sired - Again, a perjorative referring to the generally accepted centaur form, or for the equi-taur variant (typcially) resulting between a classic centaur and standard horse. Where centaurs are not seen as 'natural' creatures the perjorative refers to the (perhaps inaccurate) thought that centaurs result between human (male) and mares. For obvious reasons it is not often expected that a human female can bring such a hybrid to term and survive.

Dietary needs:
Due to having very large bodies and very small mouths for keeping those bodies functional the normal centaur will be seen to eat continuously, or partaking in a more omniverous diet to supply higher protien to sustain their energy and growth requirements. The teeth of a centaur are amazingly tough structures, beyond even human norm, and grow continuously throughout their lives forcing centaurs to 'nibble' much like rodents do though the continuous intake of small food items tends to limit the need for some object to gnaw on and keep their teeth in good shape.
General diet is quite broad, consisting primarily of fruits & vegetables for the high nutritional value and greens for bulk and fiber. Centaurs in the 'wild' (if such exist) are nomadic gatherers where culturally developed centaurs cultivate huge orchards & gardens, and defend them with considerable vigilance (which lends to the commonly accepted view that centaurs are very adept warriors).

Tortional stresses:
Much like horses, centaurs that take a tumble can suffer very detrimental tortional injuries through their lower bodies and the junction between the equine scapula (shoulders/withers) is also quite vulnerable though extremely muscular. The lower spine of the upper torso has more vertebre than a human, with thicker inter-vertebral disks allowing for the amazing flexability of their upper torso.

Upper & Lower body organs:
As the upper body is given more to the muscle structure attaching it to the equine scapula there is little room in the upper body/torso for the standard array of organs. There is no heart in the upper torso, but there is a circulatory amendmant structure to increase blood pressure to the upper body & head. This could be considered analgous to the human heart and injury to it can be very debilitating if not outright fatal.
There are also rudementary lung structures that provide oxygen primarily for the head and serve as a bellows structure to fill the primary lungs of the lower body due to the small air inflow structures of the human head. (I have no idea what a centaur's facial structure would be like simply to provide enough airflow for the lower body.)
The upper body also posseses a reduced digestive system and segregated stomach that is the primary structure used in the digestion of meat, dairy, and other non-vegetable matter. The lower intestine from this intitial stomach prevents high-fat foods from entering the lower gut to prevent bloating or disruption of the lower alimentary tract.

For those whose social status is beyond the jurisdiction of the Wardens the crimes must be taken to a higher court, one suitable in dealing with those of higher social rank. This rankles the commoners to no end, of course, who believe that everyone must face the same punitive measures for their crimes as even the lowest social ranks, but in the heirarchal structure of MK societies such measures are not 'truthfully' feasable - a noble serving jail time for a petty crime cannot oversee their station and lands.
If the crime is henious enough, or a pattern of lesser crimes sets up a precedent of behavioral disposission, then those ranks can be stripped away but that takes a writ from the highest court in the land (Duke Thomas or his direct appointees). Woe unto the noble to whom this happens… for the commoners are quick to take advantage of a noble reduced to their social status.

It seems to me that any soldier or warden *when carrying out his duty* essentially outrank nobility; they are acting with limited powers granted by the Duke or by the Duke's representative (in the case of Euper, the Duke has granted law-keeping authority to the city, and through its charter it has designated the Wardens as the official instrument of that authority). This is why a Warden may arrest a nobleman accused of murder.

Also, do we want the Watch to have the ability to hold impromptu courts and mete out justice immediately? While I could see them throwing someone in the gaol for basic and blatant violations of city ordinances, as well as defending someone, how far do their powers extend? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the intent.

For non-petty theft (i.e. more than just pick-pocketing, or 'small' sums of monetary value), for assault, and frankly for most things where there is both a plaintiff and defendant I would think these things would go before a magistrate. Civil issues as well (suits, breach of contract, land disputes, etc.). Magistrates would only have limited power over nobility, unless granted authority by the County Courts.

Perhaps I'm somewhat confused on what the 'High Court' is and what it is for. In my mind the 'High Court' would be the County Courts, where trained judges preside over serious cases of murder, rape, arson, etc. County court judges, though not noble, would have jurisdiction over the nobility because they are, in effect, exercising the power of the Duke in discharging their duties and are his representatives.

The Duke's Court (where Matthias, Lynn, and others have been tried) would be for either crimes committed within the Keep, or crimes that the Duke felt were important enough they could not be resolved in a lower court, including (potentially) appeals. In Keeptowne, I imagine the Seneschal or a representative would be responsible for adjudicating petty offenses that do not rise to the level of a criminal act.

Does this make sense, and does it fly in the face of anything currently canonized out there?

Dominus vobiscum

*votes for this one*

So that's where the sewage goes… it doesn't go to the rivers, but to feed the secret ecology of an underground magic-rich environment! The magic waste of centuries combines with the more mundane variety to create an intricate land of walking mushrooms, glowing slime, and treasure! (well, treasure to some…)

Okay, enough silliness from me… for now. I like the idea of sewers and am thinking about how to use them…

On the other side of this, perfumes and incense may be quite popular.

I do like the idea of things dealing with the gritty, less pleasant side of life at the Keep. I think that it always adds another dimension to anything: character, place, or plot, as it shows things are not always clean and nice. I just don't want to define ourselves into a literary corner.

As hangouts for thieves, the disposessed, the Heroes hiding from pursuit.

As noisome descriptions of less well-to-do cities, ect.

It's merely propwork, it was never intended to be a primary frame upon which the weight of the setting would rest. However it works out.

Simply put, Metamor would reek to anyone coming from another city, even a major one with it's own particular stench, due to the amazing variety of disparate creatures living within and around it. Moreso if it were like India as you describe it. The citizens would become accustomed to the underlying stench, noticing only when some specie they're not exposed to often crosses their path. Those from outside the city would definately take note of it, especially when the wind shifted, and people coming from far afield would be struck by it like a kick in the teeth.

And this is for every major city that does not, as you say, dispose of their effluence into some sort of magical sump… As Metamor is one of the most powerful magic collection points on the planet this is entirely possible and feasable, and need not be something the populace is commonly aware of at all. Only, perhaps, the Thieves' guilds and waste managment types would know where the purge pit is or how it functions.

However, if you want real world examples, my mind travels to places like India, where you still have a large population of animals roving about the streets, people who do not always feel a need to use latrines (public or private) and sewer systems that often seem inadequate to the task at hand. I've noticed that people even in Bangkok have a large 'trash debt' to work out on the streets. So what happens?

First of all, people are responsible for their neighborhood. You don't want to live in filth, so early in the morning or late at night the streets are busy with people collecting trash from the previous day and evening. They clean up the temples and community property, and trash heaps seem to be dealt with in several ways: Either someone hauls it away (a more modern solution, but I think these wagons could be used in MK), it is used as local landfill, or it is burned. Trying to haul waste out of the city is still going to end up littering it everywhere, and where do you plan to put it?

However, we are in a fantasy setting. Why not just have someone magic it away? Would it be that much to have the sewers empty into a cistern that can then be set up with runes or other such magic to clean the water before it is dumped into the river?

But really, are we expecting that modern standards of cleanliness apply to anything outside of MK and Euper? I have a hard time believing that all of the cities have some kind of system like this. As much as it offends us, I'd say that most people probably deal with it as an everyday fact of life and don't give it much thought. Likely the sewers in the more well-to-do section of town are probably better kept. Individual houses might have their own special systems, considering the magic and technology available around MK. Or they may just pay people to take care of it for them.

Also, regarding smells, fecal matter is only a small part of what you have to worry about. We have blacksmiths, and tanners, dyers (who likely use stale urine in great quantities), and all the animals (not just the Keepers).

Still, I'll reiterate that I think that overall it should probably serve the needs of plot. I'm curious why we need to define it unless someone has a particular story idea in mind. Although maybe we need to invite Mike Rowe to do a Metamor Keep episode of "Dirty Jobs"… :)

-Tatsushu

Metamor is on elevation, so given the ability to construct stable sewage systems, it would all go downhill and eventually end up in… the Metamor River, with the obvious odious results.

That was the reason for the latrines, that and the fact that very very few midieval towns of Metamor's type lacked any sort of waste managment systems which resulted in streets full of feces, corpses, midden heaps, you name it. Cities in the middle ages were not pleasant places to live in so, so very many ways.

Okay, owing that we've thrown out the idea of the public latrines, perhaps there should still be some manner of waste managment operation that keeps Euper and 'Metamor Town' (Keeptowne) relatively clean, otherwise the noisome mix of so many different animal species would choke people downwind for miles (and can you imagine the fur clinging to everything?). Wagon crews would tasked with cleaning the streets of various castoff bits… night workers, by the large. It would be a punitive measure for crimes beyond minor misdemeanors but no so extreme as to require imprisonment.

Euper is, overall, rather small so could be managed by a relatively small number of central waste points… essentially junction points for the sewer system where offal can be dumped in quantity and into which some manner of water is dumped (a stream channel or somesuch). This will get rid of the waste, but hardly in an efficient or pleasant way for any one downstream.

Collecting a certain amount and removing it by wagon to be composted would be a good thing for the Keep as a whole… free fertilizer to amend the soil with each spring. Drudges (criminals) collect & compost it and it's free to anyone with a wagon who wants some rich dirt.

Firstly, a Roman style sewer system would work, there is only the problem of dealing with it… since no one ever has, not even Rats. Would such a construction exist one would imagine that it would be mentioned now and then. Especially when it failed (which would be somewhat often), and its discharge point would be quite an unpleasant location to be anywhere near.

As for dealing with the cleaning of the sewers (or emptying of latrines) - it would still be a viable, and effective, punitive measure that the Watch could mete out for lawbreakers.

Don't think this is THAT huge of a deal though, considering we're some 375 stories in and I don't recall "facilities" ever being mentioned apart from the occasional chamberpot. ;)

As for your other points…
Completely agree about peeping toms and the stench… the horrible stench. Not only that, but to make these 10-feet tall like proposed, you'd need to make them out of stone. Stupidly expensive and wasteful. Surely there is some other way to dispose of waste in the valley besides wagons full of smelly humanoid fecal matter traveling through it several times a day.

Can you picture the sun rising over the walls of Metamor town (the city directly outside the variable geometry keep on the rock outcropping) drawing long lazy shadows from the Latrine Towers scattered all over the city?

How about the open wagons underneath? People sneaking in to "look up" at naked behinds? The ODOUR, even if changed daily, in a world of enhanced animal noses? The endless train of "shit wagons" going up and down the road to and from the top of the rock outcropping Metamor is on top.

The idea is LUDICROUS!

Is there no review policy on this stuff? This was put up in MAY and nobody said a word until I started ridiculing it.

Yes, some castles had "latrine towers" but they were sealed stone structures, usually over a river that the doodoo plopped down into.

Building all these towers out of STONE would be insanely expensive!

If you HAVE to have some kind of "high tech clever" waste disposal system, where does all that water pumped into the keep go? Just pipe it out of the keep, along the top of the ridge, through Roman style latrines, and then dump it off the side of the ridge and out of mind.

Though— writing the great "Latrine Rooftop Chase" has a certain appeal, as some towers are knocked over splattering goo all over the street, heavy pursuers crash through the roof an plummet down into the "well padded" wagons, the lineups at the base of people waiting to use the facilities getting bowled over by the goo falling from a wagon knocked over when a tower falls..